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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn 
January 5, 1981 
Cassette 2, Side 2 
 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:01 
Jeanne Biehn interviewed by Susan Ehlers for Washington Women's Heritage Project, January 5, 
1981. Tape two, side two. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:18 
Okay, let's see [inaudible]. Okay, we left you off about high school. One question, do you 
remember who made most of decisions in--  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:32 
My mother. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:34 
--your family? 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:35 
And that was about everything, not just [?the?] home? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:41 
Mother made the major decisions. Daddy made the minor decisions. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:46 
I see, so it was for both the business and the home? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  00:55 
Relatively speaking, yeah, I'd say so. She was the dominant factor.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  01:00 
Okay, now--  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  01:03 
Though, both their views on education and adventure, pretty much. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  01:10 
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Okay. You went to St. Catherine's Girls College for two years. What sort of subjects did you 
study there? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  01:18 
Majored in Drama and the Arts. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  01:22 
Any particular teachers or anybody that you met there that stands out?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  01:26 
Sister Marie Inez probably was the most dominant factor in my short years of college, and the 
reason I-- I probably went to St. Catherine's because it was a girls' college and one of the finest 
in Minnesota, and all I really needed was two years of college for-- in order to be able to fly at 
that time. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  01:59 
That's specifically why you went to college, that's--?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  02:02 
Absolutely.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  02:03 
Otherwise you don't think you would have, or you don't know? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  02:07 
Well, no, I think I would have gone because of the social context. But I think-- the emphasis on 
my really going into a career had always been first and foremost to be a stewardess. And from 
nurse's training to four years of college, they dropped it to two years of college. And I really felt, 
in addition to the social context, that just that broadening experience of two years of further 
education would help me in becoming a good stewardess.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  02:49 
Okay, oh, what did Sister Marie Inez teach?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  02:55 
Well, she was really more of a librarian than a teacher, but showed me the vast empires of books. 
I was not an avid reader up to that point, but through her influence and several run-ins that I'd 
had with her, which started off on a very rocky basis, more than rocky, she showed me not just 
books and their knowledge and their-- being able to lose yourself in them, but probably where 
your priorities in life lie. So that-- and Sister Annette, the psychologist at school, were both just 
extremely brilliant women. And as a matter of fact, thinking back on it now, I often wondered 
why they were nuns, because in those days, you looked at a nun like a last resort, you know? 
There was no proposal, no marriage, no nothing. And I kept thinking, gosh, they're both really 
attractive women, physically attractive women, why would they cloister themselves into the 
convent? And then, as I got to know them over the two year period, I then probably had my first 
without knowing it, my first smattering of ERA. They wanted to do their own thing and it 
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probably would have been-- it probably would not have enhanced a marriage at all. It probably 
caused more problems than good. But they were both extremely beautiful women and intelligent 
and knowledgeable beyond their... They-- we're talking a long time ago, Susan. They just--  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:57 
What, the mid '40s?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  04:59 
Y-- uh, let's see, yeah, graduated high school in '45. So that-- well, and as I progressed in years, I 
didn't-- I really didn't want to be liberated. I liked my family. I loved my home, enjoyed my role, 
but they showed such promise in women being able to do anything, anything they wanted to. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:27 
Okay, so mid '40s, so you were going to school during World War II. Do you remember 
anything, particular influence, that World War II caused in that little community?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  05:43 
Oh yes, yes -- in my hometown? 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:49 
Yes.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  05:49 
A great many of the-- of, like, my parents, for example, and a great many of the inhabitants of 
this small town had already gone through World War I and knew how devastating it really was. 
And as my parents pointed out to me, the United States of America knows nothing of war other 
than Pearl Harbor, which for us is still 3,000 miles away. So that farmers in and around-- 
[coughs] excuse me, in and around that area, were very reluctant to go off-- to have their sons go 
off to war. So in that respect, they were going out and buying farms and putting their sons on 
individual farms so that they would be therefore eliminated from the draft.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  06:41 
That was a qualifica-- [inaudible]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  06:44 
Yeah, that would exempt them from all military service if they were a farmer producing things 
that the army needed.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  06:52 
I see. Do you remember when you first heard about Pearl Harbor? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  06:59 
Yeah. I was a freshman in high school. In those days, it was one through eighth grade and then 
four years of high school. Yes, because my brother was drafted, or enlisted, much to my parents' 
dismay. They sort of went-- my parents, poor parents, went through one upheaval after the next, 
but my brother knew that he was going to be drafted, and so chose to enlist in the Navy. 
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Susan Lynn Ehlers  07:21 
But you don't remember specifically of any other circumstances [inaudible]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  07:30 
Not specifically, other than that it was devastating, and I remember listening to Roosevelt's "We 
are at war" in his declaration. I remember that very, very vividly and the chaos after my brother 
said he was going to enlist.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  07:49 
Okay, that's the main thing that you remember about World War II? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  07:52 
Well, and particularly because growing up, Mother would tell us about the war and how awful it 
was. And thinking to myself, "Why, in God's name, would he go do that?" 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  08:08 
Okay, on-- going back to college and what-- and after that, okay, then after two years of college, 
you went to become a stewardess.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  08:18 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  08:19 
And this is something you wanted to do for a long time.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  08:22 
Very long time. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  08:22 
Okay, so how did you go about-- decide by getting to be a stewardess? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  08:27 
Well, after-- you mean, after the initial contact with Mother and Dad, who, you know, "God 
wanted you to fly, he'd have given you wings" sort of thing? Well, after two years, I knew... I 
wrote to United Airlines, and "Yes," they were interested. So I had worked as a receptionist 
during the summer between my freshmen and sophomore year of college and saved enough 
money for the airfare to and from Chicago because United did not fly into Minneapolis and Saint 
Paul. So I went to Chicago and had my interview and had my physical and took all the required 
tests and passed. However, I was only 20 years old, and they said they would be delighted to 
have me fly, however, I had to be 21 years old. So with that, they patted me on the head and said, 
"Go back and get to 21 and then come back." So I had passed all my requirements. So then the 
decision came, what do I do now? I don't want to go back to school for a year, because then I 
knew I was in trouble. Because then my folks would insist that I finished. And so with that, I just 
decided I would work for a year. I felt that was-- and part of my interview, they asked experience 
with people. "How often have you been thrown with people and perhaps difficult situations?" 
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Well, I really hadn't been tossed into any difficult situations with people, but I did have a good, 
fairly good, background with people. So I felt working as a receptionist, I would know more 
people, so I went to work for the Hudson Motor Company, which I think now is extinct. As a 
matter of fact, it should have been extinct the year after I finished there [they laugh] but I went to 
work as a receptionist for a year. And then at age 21-- and I worked for this just magnificent 
Jewish man. And I told him when I took the job I would only be able to work for a year, because 
I was then going off to be stewardess. And he said, "Fine, fine." So when I was approaching my 
21st, I wrote United and said, "I'm now 21 and here I come." So I did.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  10:59 
Okay. Okay, so there was quite a bit of debate with your parents about you going into 
stewardess? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:13 
Oh yes, yes, because you see-- 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:16 
Had you been keeping it to yourself and then you sprung it on them? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:20 
No, no. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:20 
No? So [crosstalk] afterwards-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:21 
No, they knew as far back as eighth grade that this was something I was going to do, but they felt 
like all parents feel, "This is something she's-- it's a stage, it's a phase, she'll outgrow it." But it 
never, ever ceased to be just an unburning desire. I wanted to do it, and I was going to do it, and 
that was all there was to it.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:42 
So and then you just went ahead and do it [inaudible]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  11:44 
So after much weeping and wailing and beating on the wall, I said, "The time has come and I am 
going to fly." And of course, my first experiences with airplanes was DC-3s, which today, people 
have trouble remembering. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:45 
Okay, what did your training consist of?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  12:03 
Well, from the interview in Chicago, they sent me to Cheyenne, Wyoming. I think there were 
eight or ten of us. And I looked through those pictures before our first interview. I'm sure they're 
here somewhere. And we all arrived at Cheyenne on the same day, and we trained in an old 
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hangar. I mean old hangar. By comparison to today's training school, it was a real [?zip?]. And it 
was an intensified course, six weeks. Cabin training procedures, emergency was highly specified. 
Situations-- we went to school from 8:00 to 5:00 every day, six days a week, and we were 
quizzed every day. And I think of-- I, gosh, I-- we all graduated, but I don't recall-- there were 
two that I've lost completely and [?here's?] one girl who, I think, really had serious doubts when 
she went in, kept getting airsick.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  13:24 
That would be a problem [laughs]. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  13:26 
Even in the-- [laughs] even in the simulated flights, and, you know, just the mock-ups that we 
had and putting us under certain particular kinds of stress. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  13:38 
Well, did the mock-up move, or...?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  13:40 
Oh, yeah. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  13:40 
In the [inaudible], so that there would be some rolling and something that might... It wasn't-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  13:44 
Just turbulence, you know, more than anything, because we also used this mock-up for 
emergency procedures, to jump from and land on the chutes. But she persisted, and I think for 
the first three months, she got airsick every time she went up and she quit. Now, I'd have to go 
back through my logs to find her name. But there were eight of us, 1, 2, 3... Five of whom I still 
hear from, Christmastimes, and that's it. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  14:20 
Okay. Where were you sent for your first job?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  14:22 
Well, while I was doing my little thing as a receptionist for the big Hudson Motor Company-- 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  14:31 
Was that in Marshall or was it [crosstalk]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  14:34 
No, that was in Saint Paul.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  14:35 
Oh, Saint Paul, okay.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  14:37 
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I met my husband, and I think he was smart enough to recognize that I was never going to be 
happy married until I'd gotten this flying out of my system. So while we dated -- and I was not 
serious, I think he was -- and I thought, well, this would be a good-- and I was interested, but, 
you know, not what you'd call swept off my feet. And so I thought, well, this would be a real 
good cooling off period. So at that time, the domicile bases, you had three choices. They say you 
had three choices; you were sent to wherever they needed you. But you were to list them as you 
wanted them. So from Cheyenne, Wyoming, I thought, well, Los Angeles would be wonderful... 
Thank God I didn't get them there. Denver would be just super because I liked Cheyenne, I was 
sure I'd love Denver. And Chicago would be my last choice. And so I was sent to Chicago, back 
to that Midwest planet. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  15:42 
Do you remember what your first flight as an actual stewardess was like? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  15:48 
Yes, the first flight, they put us on DC-4s under another girl for a month, and we bid a schedule, 
and we bid the schedule for a month, and I flew with the most charming, charming lady I will 
never forget, [?Marna?] Savitsky. She really wasn't a gorgeous, gorgeous girl, but her personality 
just oozed out of her pores. She had more fun doing nothing than any person I've ever met in my 
life, an extremely funny lady and so-- and it was-- that just really did it, that I knew was-- that 
was what flying was all about. So I flew under-- with her as her B Stewardess for a month. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  16:33 
I see. You "bid a schedule"? What does that mean? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  16:37 
Well, the schedules were posted. Well, the first-- I think that back-- the very first month to six 
weeks we were on reserve, which meant you flew anywhere, anytime, at any given notice. As a 
matter of fact, when we were on reserve, we had to call in before we could wash our hair, 
because they may need us, and it would depend on where you were on the list, as to how soon 
your number would come up. And so we had to stay-- we were on a 24-hour call for at least six 
weeks. And some of my first fights were DC-4s, one DC-6. And then after that, we bid a 
schedule. Schedule would come out, and you'd have X number of flights. You could fly as much 
or as little as you wanted. Of course, the more you flew, the more you got paid. In those days, we 
were all broke, just sincerely flat broke, so we bid whatever we wanted to and how many hours 
we would like, not to exceed 85 a month. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  17:55 
There were two stewardesses on most of the flights, or...? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  17:59 
Mm-hmm. One on a DC-3, two on -4s, and two on -6s. Of course, now, going back to that, 
Susan, we didn't have the elaborate meal services. We served no liquor. Liquor was absolutely 
forbidden. The food that was put on was put on in a tray and all you did was lift off the cover and 
serve it. I mean, there were no courses. There were no choices. So that food service was not the 
big deal that the airlines have it today, and it was just plain simple. "Here's your lunch." And 
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often, often, on, like, the bunny hop from Chicago to Newark, New Jersey had seven stops on a 
DC-3. It was just-- that's why they called it the "bunny hop," because it was up and down, up and 
down. So the meal service consisted mostly of a sandwich and a cup of coffee. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:55 
Where all did your routes go, all over the US or just in the Chicago area, Northeast? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:01 
No, I went east as far as Newark, Boston, New York and west only as far as Denver, mostly, but 
then, on a couple of charters, San Francisco.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:18 
Okay-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:21 
Mainly, I'd say east from Chicago.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:23 
Did-- okay, do you remember any particular passengers that stand out in your mind more than 
others? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:33 
José Iturbi was one of my passengers. Fantastic man. He traveled with his sister.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:43 
The name sounds vaguely familiar, but I— 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:45 
Pianist. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:46 
Oh, pianist, okay. 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  19:52 
I'm trying to think who was one of the others. Lowell Thomas was on my flight. Oh, and that 
Latin-American actor. He's, I'm sure I have in my log; I can't remember. But from Chicago to 
New York we didn't get that many. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  20:08 
But beyond that, just any other sorts of [inaudible]-- 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  20:13 
Oh.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  20:21 
--you know, the, you know, character types, perhaps? 
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Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  20:25 
Oh, yeah, we had those all the time, because flying then was really an experience. So some p-- 
and it was interesting, because some people took it just as, you know, it's here to stay, and it's a 
great-- it's a convenience, and it's quick, and it's fast. And I remember one, lots and lots of 
younger people putting their parents on and the parents being just devastated and frightened right 
out of their mind. And then I remember a DC-3 trip from Cleveland back to Chicago, and I had 
just served-- by the way, I think the DC-3 is probably the finest little airplane that ever came 
over the [?bike?]. You could go around weather, over weather, under weather, through weather, 
and it just bounced like a jelly bean. But I had just served 21 people. I mean, this thing was 
loaded, and we hit a lightning storm, the likes of which I thought, "This is it." I-- even I was 
going around my beads. I thought, "Oh, my God, here it comes." All my-- my whole life flashed 
in front of me, and these people were getting so sick. Oh, I could not believe it. And of course, 
the thing that was stressed at school was personal appearance. We wore two and a half to three 
inch heels all the time. I'm still carrying the pump bumps on my feet from those, from that year 
of flying. But we were never to take off our hat, never remove our jacket. I mean, it was totally 
different from today. But these people. And when the-- the thing that lots and lots of passengers 
don't realize is when the seat belt sign goes on, that means cabin attendants, too. But these people 
were so violently ill that I just could not believe it. So I took my hat off, my jacket off, and my 
shoes. Not only one cardinal sin, I committed three in one fell swoop on this... I just had to do-- 
help them with something. I ran out of burp cups. Oh God, I'll never forget. I ran out with about 
two people left, and this one man, [inaudible]-- or one man, he had his hat above in the overhead 
rack. And I just said, "This is all I can find. If you're going to get sick, it's your hat. I'm sorry." 
[Laughs] And I can't remember when I gave that other lady; they were sitting together. And if 
you weren't sick, you were going to get sick from just listening to people and the stench in the 
cabin was unreal. Then I would go forward and try to get some air in the cabin-- in the cockpit. 
And I-- the copilot were just having a fit because when I opened that door, it just smelled awful. 
And I kept saying, "I've got to have some air, or we're going to have 22 people sick, by there 
being me as the sicker of a bunch." And we got to Chicago -- I shall never forget it -- and it was 
pouring down rain, and lightning bolts were bouncing off of those wings while we were flying 
and it was really terrifying. And I just walked off the airplane in my stocking feet, no hat, no 
jacket in the pouring down rain, too. I say goodbye to my passengers. And the-- also the cardinal 
sin was you brought an airplane in exactly as you took it out, meaning it was spotless. Well, to 
say the least, this was far from spotless, but I'd had it, and we were late, and it was a mess. So I 
just walked away from the airplane. I walked barefoot over to the crew car-- or in my hose. And 
the passenger agent was just astounded. He kept saying, "Oh, my god, what have you done?" 
And I said, "[Inaudible] did it. Mother Nature." [They laugh] And so, he said, "Oh, Jeanne, 
you're gonna be in terrible trouble." And I was, because my airplane-- they could have done two 
things with it, condemned it or burned it. It really was a mess. So I said, "I'm sorry," and I did do 
the best I could to clean it up, but it was just a mess. And I got called two days later by my chief 
of stewardesses, who was a man, who was really a neat guy, but he had to take some disciplinary 
action, and he suspended me for the next three flights. He said, "You know that you must bring 
your airplane back as you took it out." And I said, "It's true, but oh, boy, they were sick." Well, 
the end result of that was I probably got seven or eight [?orchid?] letters from people who had 
taken the time to write and specify the flight and specify what I had done. And even today, if you 
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don't know the name of the stewardess, just the flight will give them who you were and... 
Anyhow, these people -- God, love them --took the time to write, and so they— 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  25:50 
And compliment you?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  25:51 
Yeah, on my-- on having taken care of them when they were sure they were dying and I was 
dying, and the whole flock of us were gonna... But they did take the time, and thank God, 
because then he dropped my one suspension. So I was only suspended for [?two or three?] 
[inaudible]. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  26:06 
That was the major form of discipline for not following the rules? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  26:12 
That was their only form, really, because there was nothing else they could do.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  26:18 
That was your nearest, what you might say, close call with any sorts of emergencies [inaudible]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  26:25 
No, we had a couple. One into Omaha. We couldn't get our landing gear up or down. [Laughs] 
That was interesting. [Inaudible] [?happened, I guess?]. We had emergency fire trucks following 
us on both sides and... 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  26:44 
The wheels were stuck in a halfway position? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  26:46 
Mm-hmm, 45 degree angle, trying to-- and we couldn't-- they couldn't-- wouldn't come up and 
wouldn't move down, so... We were-- called ahead, and they met us with fire trucks, and then 
everyone used the chute at the end of the airplane-- I mean, at the end of the runway. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  26:59 
So you had a rough landing, but...? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  27:01 
It was relatively smooth. Bumpy, but you know, Lord, we didn't go down on the belly of the 
thing. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  27:07 
But you were still in one piece.  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  27:09 
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We're all in one piece, and we just evacuated right at the end of the runway, and then they taxied-
- or they towed the airplane back the hangar. And I never did find out what happened, but 
everybody was delighted to get off, and so was I at this point. But no, that, really-- I remember 
my first instrument landing into Boston. I mean, it was like going into pea soup. And I went 
forward and I said -- I had buckled down everybody -- and I said, "Look, if I'm going, I'm going 
to see what I hit before I go." So I watched it, and it was fascinating. I'd never done that, never 
had been in that situation. It was really, truly remarkable. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  27:56 
On the plane with the stuck landing gear, that was a DC-3, or...? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  28:00 
Mm-hmm.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  28:03 
Okay, did you have any particularly obnoxious passengers [inaudible]? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  28:09 
Oh, yes, all the time, people who were frightened and would take it out on us, people who were 
drinking and we didn't know about it, or people who had had too much to drink. But those were 
the, really, the exceptions to the roses. And they were just, you know, they were not nearly the... 
I would say, run of the mill, those people were-- the people who flew then were exceptionally 
nice people. And interestingly enough, as I graduated up the ranks into -4s and -6s, many, many 
families out of New York -- and I have nothing against any particular nationality or race, color, 
or creed -- Jewish families, particularly, are very, very coveted to their families. And many, 
many times, the father and son would take a flight and the mother and daughter, or mother and 
another son, would take another flight. Rarely did an entire family. And that was interesting to 
me. Now, they may still do this, I don't know. But it was not at all-- and I would say it was more 
the rule than the exception, that an entire family did not fly together. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  29:28 
Were there rules against dating passengers? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  29:31 
Mm-mm. Good grief, no, that was sometimes our best meal [laughs]. No, no, no, no. There was a 
staunch rule that we were not allowed to accept tips. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  29:44 
But did you date other passenger-- or passengers, even though you had this one guy which you 
[crosstalk]?  
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  29:52 
Oh, Mr. Biehn, I wasn't engaged to him. And yes, but we were still 21. In those days, 20-- today, 
21 is old. In those days, 21 was considered young. We always dated in twos. We traveled like 
nuns -- probably an overhang of the old college days -- but we dated, yes. Some interesting 
people, but nothing that you'd write home about.  
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Susan Lynn Ehlers  30:17 
Okay, how did you meet Mr. Biehn? 
 
Jeanne Ellen Vercoutere Biehn  30:24 
Through-- I was living with a girlfriend, and... Oh, it was really funny. This friend of mine had 
an apartment in this building, and-- 
 